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Mail from Canadian Dancesport Federation.


polkadancer Joined on 20 okt 2006 Total posts: 1.137	Re: Mail from Canadian Dancesport Federation. 23. november 2007 08:06 Dear jive2004 Still no actual answers what is your problem about the actual topic? You are yet again making tiotally false claim and really can no longer be taken seriously.. As I have said before I am quite prepared to stand by any of my wortds but lets make sure that I did say what you and another member like to falsely claim. Let me quote you the exact words I used in responsee to a post by the member Think of Me. polkadancer: . I am sorry to also say that in my opinion - outside of Canada - the huge % of names have no significance and I do not mean that in a nasty and hurtful way. It is more a case that regretfully few have been international champions or involved in the training of international champions. I would go so far as to suggest that for the majority of people on this forum they do not have a clue if the names ar 10%, 50% or 90% of Canadian professionals. I did not say or even imply all names. So far as the former World 10 Dance Champions were concerned I did in fact make reference to them in another post and wondered why since they hold such a low opinion of WDC they still promote themselves as WDC Champions. There are several other names I recognise as International dancers - one who achieved greatest sucess when dancing for England - there are some I recognise for other reasons. I could ask so please tell me just what % have been international champions (e.g. World, British, Inetrnational, UK Open) or trained the winners of those titles? However as I wrote above I have no desire to be nasty or hurtful. There are many fine professionals who are in the same position and do great service to dancing and I salute each and every one of them. They are not and would not claim to be internationaaly known. The point I was trying to make was that the list was totally un-necessary. A huge percentage of the names were unknown worldwide AND most people would not know if these people made up 10% 50% or 90% of Canadian Professionals. Strange how a few posts ago you were telling us that speaking for others was a "NO NO" with which I disagree. Now you totally support the using of names without recieving consent from the persons. That for me is a NO NO.. Let me say again that if thousands of dancers recognise 90% of the names on a worldwide basis then they will decide I am an idiot. Leave it to them. They know what they know. Dancesportinfo has over 25000 visitors per day from many countries how many of those do you claim know the names/people on that list? I shake my head when people make the most insulting claims and attempt to belittle and demean people even jive2004: What do you think, is it better to rebuild a structure which has rotten foundations, infested with buggs , or is it better to leave the structure to its own demise and build a new structure with healthy and quality foundations ? then they want to pat themselves on the back and receive a standing ovation because "when pupy was nasty I came riding to their rescue". Hypocrisy. By the way - do we rip down the Acropolis to keep jive2004 and CDF happy? .
polkadancer Joined on 20 okt 2006 Total posts: 1.137	Re: Mail from Canadian Dancesport Federation. 23. november 2007 08:16 jive2004: It also makes me smile, when I read from Polkdancers own "keyboard" : Those with something to hide always try to answer a question with a question. Who was the poster asking half a dozen questions and avoided answering a single question ? Was it not Polkadancer ? The web we weave...just to fall and get intagled in it ourselves. ***************************************** Your inconsistency and discrediting attempts let you down so badly. You are anbsolutely correct it was indeed polkadancer who asked multiple questions AND has never recived even one answer. As a result you prove my point conclusively and become trapped in your own sticky web.. Ask me a question related to the topic and related my own words you get an answer. Try and muddy the water and I am not interested. I refuse to play silly games. I regret that you never noticed how many times "polkadancer" does answer questions but exactly as here when I ask questions then answers do not follow. You prove that clearly. jive2004 you go round and round in so many circles I am just surprised that you do not go up your own exhaust pipe.
polkadancer Joined on 20 okt 2006 Total posts: 1.137	Re: Mail from Canadian Dancesport Federation. 23. november 2007 10:06 jive2004: And if WDC is inviting everyone to join them, why do you suggest WDC would not recognize and deal with CDF ? ************************************** Dear jive2004 I think you totally misunderstand but I would like to suggest. WDC already have an association they have recognised for Canada those who wish to join with WDC should join that body. If they do not like how it is working then democratically change it. WDC is interested in united professionals and does not want to have a dozen bodies from each country and all feuding and hurling abuse and accusations at the others. WDC have many times behind the scenes mediated and brought peace but here it seems CDF/CADA are not interested in peace only in power. CDF would have to accept the policy of the WDC that means among many things the Amateur League and Open competitions. Would CDF agree and thereby destroy their "relationship" with CADA who believe in bans boycotts power and disunity.? Would those who then have the events they promote de-sanctioned by CADA (entered on that little IDSF Canada list) and placed at risk accept that? Finally WDC is inviting to join them those who believe in quality and qualified adjudicatorsbeing accepted and recognised and believe in the freedom of the competitors to make their own choices as to career, competition and coaches. Does that answer your question? Now lets have the ANSWERS TO THOSE IN MY OPENING POST concerning the topic - the announcement placed in the public domain by CDF..
think of me Joined on 05 aug 2005 Total posts: 263	Re: Mail from Canadian Dancesport Federation. 23. november 2007 12:44 Lets be fair ! Go back and look up who started all this by writing: "I would also add that the CDDSC President is not the leader of the North American Dance Sport Alliance. It is really quite pathetic the way a few people (or one person a few times) keep trying to personalize the discussion and malign the reputation of the CDDSC president." Was it Jive 2004 who asked first a question to find and to clarify 'who the leader of the North American Dance ....was ? No ! Aspirin first asket it, but you are ganging up on Jive who was, in my opinion bringing up Aspirin's question, to probably point out that no straight answer was being received ? I am also intrigued by your "get-together" and your united dance around the same tottem pole. Interesting. I thought, and made believe, that WDC was inviting all dancers and all professionals to join in a freedom celebration, free of bans etc. Now, and IF you are correct, it appears WDC is inviting only those who would obide ( agree ) by WDC policies. That's a big turnaround, is it not ??? First no restriction, lets sing a freedom song...and now this ? You write, with a degree of authority: "WDC already have an association they have recognised for Canada those who wish to join with WDC should join that body. If they do not like how it is working then democratically change it." "those who wish to join with WDC should join that body." Really ? Is that your interpretation, WDC's , or, one of that body's ? Does it mean that if WDC "recognize" a given association, that they would/should/ refuse to deal, communicate, or refuse to accept membership of another, just because the association(s) has( have ) a disagreement with the ONE ( and only ) WDC has already "recognized" ? Or does it mean WDC would require all associations to blend into the ONE WDC had already recognized in that corner of the World ? Can you see my point ? In that case WDC would have to have an impartial INSIDE information about everyone who applies for the advertized 'unristricted, free WDC membership'. Just out of my curiosity, how would this apply to the Amateur dancers belonging to IDSF member organizations ? Do they have to accept WDC "PRINCIPLES" ? I suppose the PRINCIPLES of WDC are the conditions mentioned on the all free application for membership ? And if this is correct and if they would agree in the WDC membership to accept all future policies, would they not be showing disloyalty to their amateur organizations, and to IDSF ? And if accepting the principles is so important for WDC that WDC would exclude new applicants who do not accept the principles, would you ( how could you ) criticize IDSF for applying same thinking and ideology, and would decline membership of amateurs who would join WDC ? Can you have it both ways ? As for the CDF letter which Polkadancer "had to" bring to our attention, when starting this thread, and I am thankful, it appears A) that some believe the listed CDF professionals all agreed with the letter, which is simply not the case, it is just a list of names of CDF members.... B) that some believe that the writter of the letter had to obtain a permission of all the people listed, which makes no sense. You can see all sorts of names in any many written documents, be it Yellow Pages, home owners list on a given street, various statistical documents, on Internet- just Google any name you wish - do all these people need be consulted if their names are looked up ? How about showing you on TV withing a group or a crowd, do TV producers, reporters need everyone to consent ? Or, do you just wish to pick and choose what suits you to suit you ? By the way: Who is the leader of the North Amarican Alliance for Canada ? Why do you tippy toe around the answer, instigated by sambatogo, asked by Aspirin, repeated several times by Jive 2004, and now by me ? I read the reply, but the leader is just one person, it is not a group of people without a name. There need be accountability, and there must be a leader. The leader who earned the WDC respect to earn the trust and the position, so do not be ashamed to inform Aspirin, and Jive 2004 or me. Do you feel it has no relationship with the topic ? A believe it does. The topic is about the reasons for a division amongst CDDSC, the reasons, and about CDDSC acting on behalf of WDC as North American Alliance. The question need be answered, and anyone saying look it up is not being straight, and considered evasive, because he would have to direct all people asking other questions to get lost, and look it upo themselves. Not to get the question lost let me repeat for the others and myself : Who is the leader of the North American Alliance in Canada ? Be proud to name the person. WDC is proud of their leader, or, would naver have selected him/her/it ? The more evasive you are the more curious, and more suspicious some readers may become and even start questioning your cander.
quicktime2 Joined on 31 aug 2007 Total posts: 81	Re: Mail from Canadian Dancesport Federation. 24. november 2007 00:19 To think of me You wrote …it appears, B) that some believe that the writer of the letter had to obtain permission of all the people listed, which makes no sense. Makes no sense? Please! Are you serious? When someone writes a letter he puts his name at the end in order to identify who wrote the letter. I don't think there is any one in the world who does not understand this. This is a tradition that transcends borders and cultures. Further, if you put someone else's name to the letter without prior permission IT IS CALLED DECEPTION.
sambatogo Joined on 29 aug 2007 Total posts: 109	Re: Mail from Canadian Dancesport Federation. 24. november 2007 06:23 Dear Quicktime2, Could what you say even be illigal in most countries? It would seem so logical to me. Anyone have any legal experience on this type of matter? Sambatogo.
jive2004 Joined on 02 nov 2006 Total posts: 116	Re: Mail from Canadian Dancesport Federation. 24. november 2007 15:23 I do. The problem with the letter is that the person who submitted it has ommitted to sign the letter. Let me give you an example and feel free to tell me whether the letter was signed by you, agreed by you, approved by you and whether it indicates you are in any way in agreement with the letter, or tell me , where I committed and illegal act, a wrong doing, or somehow misrepresented you, and/or used your name without a consent or permission : Open letter submitted to Dancesportinfo.net Forum by a contributor: Dear All readers of Dancesportinfo.net Forum and the inhabitants of the Planet Earth : I am pleased to announce that I enjoy sending you this letter. I believe IDSF is the greatest, most valuable IDSF organization and in fact the only IDSF organizsation on your planet. Many contributors participate on Dancesportinfo.net forum making valuable comments. Not always. These valued contributors include amongst many others : think of me, El Cordobe, Puppy, Polkadancer, Admin, Mr. Admin, quicktime, Jive 2004, Peter, Jazz, Aspirin, sambatogo, Geronimo, not to forget valuable comments by Foxtrot2.
quicktime2 Joined on 31 aug 2007 Total posts: 81	Re: Mail from Canadian Dancesport Federation. 24. november 2007 21:51 To Jive2004 You said "The problem with the letter is that the person who submitted it has omitted to sign the letter" With all respect the letter was signed by all the persons who allowed their names to be placed at the end of the letter where the signature of the person or persons signing a letter are placed. It isn't that the letter wasn't signed. It was. The problem is that these people did not know someone had put their name to a document without obtaining their permission beforehand. You read my post: If you disagree tell me what is wrong with what I wrote.
light&easy Joined on 30 dec 2005 Total posts: 105	Re: Mail from Canadian Dancesport Federation. 25. november 2007 00:55 SIGNED or NOT SIGNED , that IS THE QUESTION !\ The letter in question stated: "The majority are represented by the Canadian Dancesport Federation, who have a great working agreement with our Amateur body and can see no reason for a new system when the one we have works. M. Davies, J. Edgett, J. Menzies-Newton, K. Murphy, P. Allaire, D. Arbour, M. Bolduc, P. Bovaird, S. Champagne, P. Chartier, G. Cournoyer, D. Desloges, R. DiMarco, A. Doucet, S. Elimanov, S. Ernest, I. Farand, D. Foisy, J-M Genereux, D. Heroux, M. Hurteau, S. Jacques, A. Jolicoeur, L. Jolicoeur, R. Lemyre, S. Lemyre, J-F. Messier, F. Mousseau, M. Pearson, M. Savaria, D. Quilliam, S. St-Denis, G. Trottier, S. Trottier, M. Veilleux, J. Allenbick, P. Allenbick, G. Argentini, A. Armsby, A. Bee, E. Belashov, J. Bouma, S. Cardinal, T. Cardinal, B. Cayton, J. Chalkevitch, V. Chalkevitch, V. Chernyshev, S. Corapi, N. Cowan, M. Ehler,K. Fadeeva, A. Florin, E. Franco, I. Fylymonchyk, O. Fylymonchyk, K. Gibb, P. Goh, M. Golovaneski, A. Harding-Trafford, D. Ilyushenov, M. Jennings, J. Karakis, G. Kastulin, L. Kerbel, L. Kerbel, H. Kessler, M. Kolarova, N. Kopossova, D. Lee, P. Lee, I. Lebedev, J. Lepine, N. Logan, B. Mayer, A. Mostovoy, V. Mostovoy, D. Murphy, S. Nelson, I. Nikon, Y. Nikon, M. Ottaviani, A. Paramonov, A. Pepple, C. Perron, S. Pogonet, W. Pollock, K. Renaud, H. Ross, V. Ross, S. Ruddick, P. Smith, A. Sniegocki, J. Sniegocki, C. Sochnacki, I. Strelnikova, K. Stytsenko, R. Tang, R. Thibeault, B. Torner, S. Vaidila, A. Vaidilene, J. Valvasori, A. Wahab, J. Wood, P. Worrall, T. Worrall, O. Yedlin, M. Milette, L. Ardern, J. Belmonte, K. Donaghy, C. Folkes, M. Holub, D. Lacroix, M. Lefebvre, J. Leipert, S. Luu, T. Luu, D. Matiaszow, A. McPherson P. Pawlicka, L Pereira,G. Requena, R-M. Requena, D. Romaire, G. Zielinska, G. Bettner, C. Chan, L. Chen, A. Cherdantsev, B. Child, T. Copp, M. Guimond, C. Lee, J. Marasigan, , E. Mitchenko, R. Mitchenko, D. Neale, C. Shih, D. Tremblay, W. Wang, A. Wong, N. Wong, W. Wong" I agree with those who say NOT SIGNED. I see, no yours very truly and a bunch of co-signees I see no Sincerely Yours, and a bunch of co-signees I see no Respectfully, and a bunch of co-signees I see no ending to the letter which as we can see in out Forum usually starts by "Dear Pittyful, I must laugh ... it makes me smile..IDSF, tyrany, gestapo, I so helpful and knowing everyone important, just bothered Admin again, cannot stay on line 24/7 must go to sleep, Sincerely, yours " Guess Who ? " Is it possible the person who submitted it has amended the letter, left something out ( ie the missing ending and the signature ? ) I also do not see the long list of the majority of the Canadian Professionals as a signature, just what it is, an alleged list of CDF members. By the way Jive2004, you forgot to add tyhe snakes name and mine. I suppose you could not contact me to obtain my written permission ?
la mamba Joined on 02 aug 2007 Total posts: 59	Re: Mail from Canadian Dancesport Federation. 25. november 2007 12:00 You forgot to notice that the list of names is comprised of several groups of names listed in alphabetical order. Personally I cannot see that the members would be contacted and asked to sign the letter ( as a sign of agreement ) in the alphabetical order, and by regions, and for that reason do not believe myself that the list is anything but a list of members. I have wondered about the missing ending, such as 'sincerely' for CDF and a name of the writer. Something is unfinished, and only the writer, or whoever else has taken something out of the letter and,or felt the urge to post it for us to see here, know. As a reader I feel I am safe as long as I understand the letter "Mail from CDF", as an explanation and a notification of a newly formed professional group/ federation which has many members, whose names are listed, and providing the resasons. Nothing more, nothing less, that's all. Have you not noticed how many times different ( well, same three or four people have attacked CDF for various reason, one attacking the name Federation, and never returning after someone provideded a definition, another criticized that the members did not sign the letter, and to show the names they needed to be contacted and approvals received, another attacking democratic processes suggesting CDF was unnecessary, all they needed was to purge the president, another saying with authority of the informed all mighty that WDC will not deal with CDF since they already recognize another Canadian professional association ( meaning what is left of the original group after the collaps into what they have now ), do I recall a post suggesting that CADA will drop CDF when they do not need them, and attacking CADA intead of discussing the topic - CDF' Mail ? The sound of bitterness / disappointed/ upset / hurt/ or just uninformed people, with their own agendas, none of which are at all friendly towards CDF and CADA. Why ? This is sad and says a lot about those who criticize and cannot let go. ( I suppose the over 11000 hits may just be from the four upset attackers who keep checking and rechecking who else to go after ? How sad. ) You consider me a green snake ? So be it. But this green snake does not understand what the argument is all about, and considers the letter , which generated so much interest, and attracted over 11000 readers ( unless - see above ) , just an informative information, which WAS interesting but certainly not worth so much attention and disection under a magnifying glass. And if you insist on continuing to disect it and attack it more, you bring attention just to yourselves because you are just 3 or 4 while the majority of the 11000 readers who had logged on, just noted the comments and logged off. I agree with the posters that this new CDF caused no harm to anyone ( except the formal and remaining CDDSC organization) , they did not direct, order dancers to join, or not to joint anywhere , thay let CADA do their job, CDF does not ask dancers for any moneys, they appear to co-exist with CADA and provide good quality teachers and are beneficial to Canadian dancers. This is good , is it not ? If the "Mail" originated at CDF, and it may have, at least the posted part which was offered , it explained and clarified a confusion, and provided the names of professionals to support the statement that majority of Canadian dance professionals are CDF members . And it is just too bad it upsets some. And may be there was another way to solve their ( CDDSC) internal problems, but that was their business and ther members have solved it. I do not see anyone criticizing the independant republics of the formal Soviet Union for splitting from the Union, on the contrary, freedom loving people of the World have cheered at the collaps odf the dictatorship. Maybe they also could have saved it, but that was their members choice and business. Why would anyone attack CDF if the disputes and bad blood is elsewhere ? M. Davies, J. Edgett, J. Menzies-Newton, K. Murphy, P. Allaire, D. Arbour, M. Bolduc, P. Bovaird, S. Champagne, P. Chartier, G. Cournoyer, D. Desloges, R. DiMarco, A. Doucet, S. Elimanov, S. Ernest, I. Farand, D. Foisy, J-M Genereux, D. Heroux, M. Hurteau, S. Jacques, A. Jolicoeur, L. Jolicoeur, R. Lemyre, S. Lemyre, J-F. Messier, F. Mousseau, M. Pearson, M. Savaria, D. Quilliam, S. St-Denis, G. Trottier, S. Trottier, M. Veilleux, J. Allenbick, P. Allenbick, G. Argentini, A. Armsby, A. Bee, E. Belashov, J. Bouma, S. Cardinal, T. Cardinal, B. Cayton, J. Chalkevitch, V. Chalkevitch, V. Chernyshev, S. Corapi, N. Cowan, M. Ehler,K. Fadeeva, A. Florin, E. Franco, I. Fylymonchyk, O. Fylymonchyk, K. Gibb, P. Goh, M. Golovaneski, A. Harding-Trafford, D. Ilyushenov, M. Jennings, J. Karakis, G. Kastulin, L. Kerbel, L. Kerbel, H. Kessler, M. Kolarova, N. Kopossova, D. Lee, P. Lee, I. Lebedev, J. Lepine, N. Logan, B. Mayer, A. Mostovoy, V. Mostovoy, D. Murphy, S. Nelson, I. Nikon, Y. Nikon, M. Ottaviani, A. Paramonov, A. Pepple, C. Perron, S. Pogonet, W. Pollock, K. Renaud, H. Ross, V. Ross, S. Ruddick, P. Smith, A. Sniegocki, J. Sniegocki, C. Sochnacki, I. Strelnikova, K. Stytsenko, R. Tang, R. Thibeault, B. Torner, S. Vaidila, A. Vaidilene, J. Valvasori, A. Wahab, J. Wood, P. Worrall, T. Worrall, O. Yedlin, M. Milette, L. Ardern, J. Belmonte, K. Donaghy, C. Folkes, M. Holub, D. Lacroix, M. Lefebvre, J. Leipert, S. Luu, T. Luu, D. Matiaszow, A. McPherson P. Pawlicka, L Pereira,G. Requena, R-M. Requena, D. Romaire, G. Zielinska, G. Bettner, C. Chan, L. Chen, A. Cherdantsev, B. Child, T. Copp, M. Guimond, C. Lee, J. Marasigan, , E. Mitchenko, R. Mitchenko, D. Neale, C. Shih, D. Tremblay, W. Wang, A. Wong, N. Wong, W. Wong"