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Joined on 08 jul 2007
Total posts: 6
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Re: What is happening to English DanceSport??
8. juli 2007 03:34
Here are my reasons for why English dancing has regressed...
- No club system, too many coaches especially in South London only interested in what they can take back out of dancing, In eastern europe they hire buses to take part in competitions in other countries thereby drastically reducing the cost of travel. Pro's teaching amateurs, amateurs teaching juniors, juniors teaching juveniles. Club fundraising for their couples entries etc and ensures a stream of income that can be ploughed back into your own development
- English squad training, always in London, going back a few years when we had some very successful couples we had rachel and evgeni, darren and lilia, kevin and anna, gary and katie, igor and lucy all based in the north of england so rather than eada paying for a world class coach to drive up the m6 to manchester or even birmingham we expect all these people to drive down to egham probably incurring hotel bills for maybe 2 - 3 hours coaching, sometimes which was circuit training which any of the above could have done in a local gym. I'm sure the vast majority of these couples felt obliged to relocat to london again making the dancing even more expensive.
- In medallist dancing open dancing is referred to as "cheque book dancing", and people are actively discouraged from turning open. lets be honest there are some wonderfully experienced and knowledgable coaches in this country but is it reasonable to expect our couples to pay 40 - 50 pounds for a 45 minute lesson? Human nature means that people want to maximise their earning potential but whilst there is an ego competition between the teachers to see who can charge the most who suffers...? If a teacher can charge that then he / she wouldn't want to work for less to teach an english couple so why dont they give english couples a discounted rate with eada making up the difference. maybe more practical than all these people travelling to egham to take coaching with somebody who's ideas / beliefs maybe conflicting with their own?
Having been fortunate enough to travel and dance abroard I can vouch how hard some of these people work to improve their dancing, except for the very top english couples generally the others lack the dedication and ambition to make the necessary improvements to challenge for top honours.
People dance because of the feeling it gives them, me included, having to manage a full time job and give dancing enough time and energy to get a significant improvement is very tough. Please lets try and help the english dancers, not hinder them with politics
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Joined on 19 jan 2005
Total posts: 117
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Re: What is happening to English DanceSport??
8. juli 2007 10:48
I agree with all the recent comments...and especially with the expression "cheque book dancing"
In the UK, the dance world as it currently works is designed to take your money with people charging fees which I sometime question in terms of "value for money". There are many high quality ballroom teachers that is for sure but in the latin field, it is more questionnable. On the other hand, I try to imagine if I was in their position and unfortunately, living in the UK these days requires a lot of income. This country has become a nightmare as EVERYTHING is designed to STEAL your money. Basically, everyone starts charging more and more at all level because everyone is doing it....and what is happenning now is that many middle-class families are moving abroad as they cannot live decently in this country.
What has happened to English Dancesport is just the result of a situation at national level and the world of dance could not escape it. For young dancers, it is possible up to the point when the parents are fed up of paying the bills...and then they stop as they just cannot afford it themselves which is why there is such a drop out between youth and amateur. For the adults, you 'd better have a good job !
The lost of support from Sport England to EADA was a major disaster...I don't know any discsipline able to produce high level athletes without governement support unless major sponsors are in the game.
There is a lot of work in terms of clubs, national organisation, fund rasing for top league dancers, marketing, events promotions. We need a lot of bright individuals who have gained skills in other professions to make it work !!!
Will it happen ?
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Joined on 20 jan 2006
Total posts: 82
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Re: What is happening to English DanceSport??
8. juli 2007 15:50
Just an interesting story to add to the discusion... a dancer I know was dancing with an English girl a few years ago (he wasn't English). After they split, he found a partner in the USA and moved there, but flew back to the UK 4-6 times per year for comps, lessons, etc. He noticed that the teachers in the UK were more interested in him once he was representing the USA.
Surely a sign that something is seriously messed up...
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Joined on 14 maj 2007
Total posts: 7
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Re: What is happening to English DanceSport??
8. juli 2007 18:09
I think you have to adapt and work with the curent situation, and complaining like baby's is not going to change anything! The EADA is actualy doing as much as they can but you can not please everyone, and just to remind you that the people working for the EADA are doing work for dancers on their free time and with out pay, so more respect please! I am not English and know very well how things are going abroad, believe me the grass is not as green as it looks...different Country, different problems. Thats all...
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Joined on 19 jan 2005
Total posts: 117
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Re: What is happening to English DanceSport??
8. juli 2007 20:30
well ....the fact is that in countries like Italy and Russia, you have the quantity and the quality whereas in the UK there is none of these...what a coincidence !....Italy has a very strong federation and Russia has a systen whereby the kids can learn a lot in the Club structure.....so it is very nice to say some people are doing what they can and I am sure they do...but the fact is that the situation is not improving in the UK.
 Pink Unicorn:I think you have to adapt and work with the curent situation, and complaining like baby's is not going to change anything! The EADA is actualy doing as much as they can but you can not please everyone, and just to remind you that the people working for the EADA are doing work for dancers on their free time and with out pay, so more respect please! I am not English and know very well how things are going abroad, believe me the grass is not as green as it looks...different Country, different problems. Thats all...
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Joined on 08 jul 2007
Total posts: 6
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Re: What is happening to English DanceSport??
9. juli 2007 04:26
Pink Unicorn, how would you define "EADA is doing as much as they can"? I agree that the involved people are working hard, nobody is questioning that but surely the current state of English Dancing proves that the efforts being made are not focused in the right areas. Maybe we ought to look closer at how countries with much smaller populations and minus our economy are able to produce Blackpool, UK and World finalists on a regular basis.
In English dancing it is still pretty much every man for himself, people are working hard and ploughing fortunes into something they believe in but the odds are heavily stacked against them being successful. Year on year the entries for Blackpool from "British" couples dwindles and the quantity of couples able to progress through several rounds does too.
Most things go in cycles and I believe in 10 - 15 years all the great Russian and Italian competitiors we see now will be very good coaches and there will be less necessity for the "new crop" to come take lessons in England. Therefore all the teachers who are charging astronomical fees now will not be as busy so what will they do? There will not be as many competitive English dancers so in order to maintain thewir current incomes they will have to charge more.
With argaubly a high concentration of some of the most competant coaches in the world in one country, 3 Major dance competitions and the most popular shoe / material companies all located in this country then there must seriously be something stopping English Dancesport being successful.
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Joined on 14 maj 2007
Total posts: 7
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Re: What is happening to English DanceSport??
9. juli 2007 10:49
The quantity of British couples able to progress through several rounds at a International Comp has nothing to do with EADA!! but with the way of life we live....
"countries with much smaller populations and minus our economy are able to produce Blackpool, UK and World finalists on a regular basis" Yes, because that is the only way out for them!!!
The British have the luxury of good study and well payed jobs at the end of it, and take the dancing side as a HOBBY!!
How many times I have seen those "countries with much smaller populations and minus our economy" up early in the morning and training on the beach, but the British still in bed with many parents hangover and later on all stuffing a Fat fryed breakfast to each other only 2 hours before the comp start at the tower....
The dance training of the "countries with much smaller populations and minus our economy" are all link with the education authority and will include Dance Teaching and Dance Practice EVERY DAY!
I sugesst that one, you join them and see how you like this way of life or, join the EADA with your great ideas and sort out the problem!
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Joined on 20 jan 2006
Total posts: 82
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Re: What is happening to English DanceSport??
9. juli 2007 10:53
lovetodance does make a good point. Unless something changes, the English open scene will crash in the future.
Maybe the current elite teachers don't see it as their problem, since they will have made their money and retired when that happens.
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Joined on 19 jan 2005
Total posts: 117
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Re: What is happening to English DanceSport??
9. juli 2007 11:48
Pink Unicorn,
Fair point...when you mention the difference of dedication betwen certain "cultures". This is a very valid point but you see in Dennmark which is not east europe, they do train quite hard indeed so hard training is not the only factor. They have a very good structure in Aarhuis designed to help the dancers. Hard training if you don't have the ressources cannot only lead you that far.
Anyway, this is not the point of this discussion.
Since you know so well EADA, why don't you tell us why they lost the support from Sport England ?
Pink Unicorn:
"countries with much smaller populations and minus our economy are able to produce Blackpool, UK and World finalists on a regular basis" Yes, because that is the only way out for them!!!
The British have the luxury of good study and well payed jobs at the end of it, and take the dancing side as a HOBBY!!
How many times I have seen those "countries with much smaller populations and minus our economy" up early in the morning and training on the beach, but the British still in bed with many parents hangover and later on all stuffing a Fat fryed breakfast to each other only 2 hours before the comp start at the tower....
The dance training of the "countries with much smaller populations and minus our economy" are all link with the education authority and will include Dance Teaching and Dance Practice EVERY DAY!
I sugesst that one, you join them and see how you like this way of life or, join the EADA with your great ideas and sort out the problem!
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Joined on 14 maj 2007
Total posts: 7
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Re: What is happening to English DanceSport??
9. juli 2007 20:04
Mike: lovetodance does make a good point. Unless something changes, the English open scene will crash in the future.
Maybe the current elite teachers don't see it as their problem, since they will have made their money and retired when that happens.
"The current elite teachers" actualy teach the finalist of those International competitions, in and out of the UK!!!
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